He would not be remotely aware of his behavior while leaving. Do not include anything about your relationship. I constantly remind myself of this. Ive become a new strong women and he has become a new man. Only you know. Very spiritual, as well. I have not heard anyone talk about sex on this website. And yet she believes there is nothing wrong with her and still blames me for causing her behaviour. They are innocent, and will use this to cry and tell others about you. Thanks again for being so personal! I cant trust him yet of course. Just last night he tried to manipulate me again into lending him more money by setting the stage thru being super sweet cooking and cleaning and then bamm, here he goes again. It is not wrong to use this survival skill, everyone benefits and it is to ensure your own safety. 4) During deployment you asked me if I would be OK with your parents moving in with us because they were going to loose their house. Everything is for him. I managed to get my ground back in some important ways. I really dont know how much more I can take of this bad behavior. Things crumbled he was a extremely paranoid, trusted no one, every body out to get him, stealing from him.became unemployed depressed and isolated him self. Now that I have a voice and he suffers consequences.he is can be harder to deal with. My partners behaviour is exactly the way you describe. 7 Alexia Demidova The Truth: Once you know, you know and can never unlearn it. (first disbelief, then unreal grief, then disbelief, grief, etc etc) Rather stuck in a cycle of griefIt doesnt seem like anyone could fake love as good as thatand yet, it isnt the kind of love one would want or expect from a husband, or at least he is unwilling (unable) to do that now! I wish you all peace and kindness in your lives. Sounds similar Marie. Hi Ann, This is why it is so important to not leave yourself in the position of being the judge. I would never trust another man anyhow so I stay put and just take it as it comes. They cannot put themselves into your shoes and feel or understand. It has been a while since i wrote last. You will find loads of advice and support in the articles here and also my ebooks (-: Thank you for your article. Ann, was he ever there for you? Getting my narcissist significant other to be accountable will never happen. Kims suggestion. Who does something like that to their kids? As for the promise, I finally had to stand my ground. Unfortunately, as I tried to work on the things we had identified, she fell right back into the N-pattern of denial and assigning blame (all to me, of course). Im still trying to recover my self esteem. No matter how soul destroying this type of relationship can be, your experience of this disorder being incurable is not ours and the DSM has also recently been updated to change their position on this. so many nights i wake up wondering what happened to my sweet man.. And since the consequences were triggered by events, there was no means for understanding through close communication. Cannot yet share my own experience but am on a huge learning curve so am needing to understand more and recognise fully that the change needs to come from me: not only because I would like to have the NPD in my life understand the impact of his behaviour on me (and others) Doing so, it began to dawn on me why my husband is who he is. I would be hurt and he would be riding the clouds towards his glorious throne. Narcissists view themselves with a "higher than thou" attitude, where they believe they are more special and deserving of things than others. I say he suffers though of course he wont ever admit it. He is like a King on a throne with many wives. In the mean time, I date other men on a non-sexual basis but for some reason, my heart is drawn to my NPD friend. Thank you! Your husband sounds EXACTLY like mine was. He called and apologized once he had this revelation. Even to a point that it appears to be his decision letting you off the hook. Ill set boundaries. Moved in with me and 6 months later started choking me, beating me, humiliating and belittling. How do I protect them? Everyone needs different ideas and I thank you for adding yours to the discussion. This search engine reveals so much more. He became the most loving partner in life and we got married. Finally I knew I couldnt live like that and I had to leave. Im going out for a sandwich and coffee. I am Liberal thinking person and positive too until I get around her and her negativity!She is constantly pointing out my shortcoming while I reserve my feelings about her shortcomings.. its as if she is talking me out of our relationship! Just food for thought. I said that is impossible and he said are you sure you didnt forget the banking? My eldest is 15 and is still watched getting on and off the school bus!! So then, you cannot hold someone accountable who will not be held accountable. Did I catch it from him? How can I ever trust that this isnt the beginning of another end? Just what I have found throughout my life. Ive lived with this for 24+ years and I have had it. He calls it the 4 Ds of financial abuse: Debt: Every discussion about finances - no matter how mundane - becomes triggering and turns into a panic attack. My husband appears to have pretty strong values, actually, around sexual behavior ie I dont expect that hed easily cheat. Hi Lisa, Hang in there! 2. The guy Im living with even wrote 2 books and the first one he is actually describing the messiah (him). Dear Kim Avery, I am so sorry for what you are going thru.. it breaks my heart! Never listens to a single word I say. We have been married for 29 years 8 of which he spent living with someone else. He is never wrong and will tell you so. We have 2 children together and this time has been very difficult. . And I just been letting get away with these destructive things. 4 Deny them what they want. Going from being a family to no barely no communication at all had started to confuse me and my daughter who longed to spend time with N who a month ago and a half ago started talking about reconciling, but suddenly as of a month ago, became evasive, unresponsive, and completely absent from the family life we created. You say your marriage cannot be annulled and your husband doesnt qualify for Divorce. 2) The reverse discard and the grey rock method. 23.9K subscribers Subscribe 10 Share 80 views 1. Remember if they do it once its happen again! It broke my heart. She was the kindest most loving, giving person I had ever been with.. until she wasnt anymore. Think of it like this you can choose to feed . 16) You continuously ask me for more money and then act like you are doing me a favor by paying it back in monthly payments. He is well known in Our small community. Kim writes a lot about taking care of yourself emotionally and physically and I couldnt agree with her more. i cant see them. DA from what was explained to me, a true narcissist does not know how to lovehe knows how to survive on his narcissistic supplywhich is youuntil youre not. Kim, what is the natural consequence for ongoing, deliberate, hostile silence that is simply meant to punish? But when I wasnt getting what he said he got totally and completely frustrated with me, said he didnt have time for this crap in his day so I offered to call her back and handle it and he refused said he would call. Anyones behaviour can seem selfish, irresponsible and mean if it isnt what the other person thinks it should be. Trying to Make the Narcissist Accountable is Keeping You Hooked. I dont want to get you in trouble, it just scares me and I dont know what else to do.. I was completely on my own and I was devistated. There is no promise once you get stronger that he will change or that in the end you will want to stay with him but you need to start righting the power imbalance in your home if there is to be any positive outcome for yourself. I would like to hear more about how to protect our 10-year-old son. Kim & Steve have a blog page titled Because I Love You-Im Learning To Say No. RUN RUN RUN if you can. Also as far as a male role model he has blamed all the men at our church for our problems and we are now going to a different church whice actually has much older and stronger marriages, but will this work with someone he doesnt know very well to hold him accountable? I am sorry that I didnt see you original post but if he is gone I would suggest that you start with The Love Safety net Workbook and 10 Steps to Overcome Codpendence and also if you want personal comfort and soothing Lovable me. Though, in reality I dont really believe this will truely ever happen. Here are some of the things a narcissist is afraid of: Losing control. It is down to only about 50% of the time being the disordered personality. So hard to get out of my marriage for many reasons. There are times I just want to say enough! I know that it is true by the company thst he keeps. Sorry to rush and also sorry to everyone I havent answered today I have a job for the next few days and dont have a lot of time! I switched tacks and did something close to what you described. Thats how they have consequences. I am soooo sick and tired of him by the weekend after hes been a jerk half the week for apologising yes apologising for being a jerk and defending himself at what a tough week its been and hes sorry only for him to do it again. Click here for instructions on how to enable JavaScript in your browser. One of the most effective ways to induce a reverse discard is by using what is known . Is there law enforcement in your area that are likely to believe and protect you or is exposing the rape going to put you in further danger? : ) Stay strong my friends. Oh yes! He left and came back many times, but made a fool of me three months ago for the last time. Further if you carry on like a Narc whilst being oblivious to the fact that its you who is actually dragging everyone down..i promptly fire you! She loves me for a mattervof time, its all good, but then hates next, the patterns are the same, im close to divorseN her, almost went to family courts, just to set the boundaries the she refuses to have.. And priorites.its 6 years yesterday, I mean, shes in and then out of my life, the love of my life ..yall pray for me Pray for us. He tells me Im the sick one that needs help, and do you know hes right ! That is why I am ending the relationship. I told him that I needed him to make decision by tonite which ofcourse he didnt like at all. I know that if I just pull a little bit back, give him his own feeling of space he will be fine.. (2) Damaged my car I have been scared of him & Several times I have ran to my car, locking the doors to get away from him& when I refuse to leave safety of my car, he threatens to damage my car if I dont get out of it, which has resulted in: door Handel ripped off, entire windshield wiper broken off, Three big dents in my door, cracked windshield and him keying my car. What do I do about the kids? Either term seems to fit well to me, as either one describes a parasite that drains vitality of life. He told her the other day that if she would be more involved then he would start putting that money towards her college fund! Hes a gigolo too, pretty sure of it.I need him out of here and dont know how to be more blunt. [] (An earlier version of thisarticle was first published on the narcissism Daily Mirror and then at:www.thelovesafetynet.com.) Seems he decided to leave only after we were married. I do believe he misses meand he loves me as much as he is able to love, but this disability is cyclicand I am much too aware of his cycles. To shut down a narcissist, you have to be more prepared than . Real trust is earned and not given anyway and so no you shouldnt trust him yet, things need to be set up now so there is complete transparency. Ive realized the times he/we are in therapy he is good but when the therapy is over it isnt long before he reverts back to his passive aggressive and non-relational ways. I really was obsessed about his cheating. Unbelievable. After another long fight, I agreed to add it to your tab and for you to pay it back with your monthly payments. To find out that who you thought was your partner actually had no interest or ability to play that role. Im wondering if youve looked at all angles? My question is, it would be great to rely on someone else (police, doctor, etc) to deliver the bad news to him about his behavior, but the things my husband does are too mild for that. He has taken away so many things, but he could not brake my spirit. How does one stay true themselves, their daughter and the man they love, while N is determined to destroy the love of a family he so wanted and created, without hurting everyone, and still finding a way to mend what is so very broken? ThaNK YOU. If they find someone else who thrives on this, they'll fall in love quickly. His mother committed suicide when he was a child and later his father and step-mother abandon him in his mid-teens. It certainly was the case with me. 4. As much as he wanted it to look so, he hated the reality of being accountable for anything especially his own word. Insane. Making a narcissist accountable can result in them putting more effort into protecting themselves at the cost of everyone around them. He is a disbarred attorney who signed an amicable divorce decree but of course, has refused to pay a penny and has left us in a mess. It was all my fault she says because I crossed the line but she didnt do anything wrong. After lots of advice I have had to step back and watch as my boys grow and mature (2.5yrs so far). Im tired of it and have told him that this isnt working for mehes too irritated and frustrated with me so much of the time, and Im burnt out on the tension and the fighting. After over 9 years it has got worse. Everything is always my fault, and he never takes responsibility for hurtful actions. When he recently visited while I was putting bubs to sleep (after a month of serious sleep deprivation which Id been trying to pull some consideration or support from him with)he goes to sleep as soon as he arrives as hes had such a hard day.every day is hard in his world, he does to his credit go over the top. You may also look for help from organisations that help the families of problem gamblers in your area. And talk about the blame. We later talked about it and agreed that he would ask for a time out if he felt uncomfortable in an argument with me, so he would have time to let the anger out by running a view blocks for example. While I was asleep, got my phone and synced with it taking all of my photos my phone showed that his phone synced to mine at 3:53 a.m. And he took things of mine and continued to invade my privacy until suddenly woke at 5:30 and saw him standing at the foot of my bed!!! But with your advice in my mind, I already managed to stop discussions without threatening to leave him. I am thinking he was pretending to be someone else, married me, kept it up awhile and then it got too much to keep it up. i wish I could at least get him to discuss the fact that he is a Narc but Im willing ot stay help him through it. He does have a unique bond with children in that they adore him, and I wonder if there are other partners of narcissist that have witnessed similiar bonds with children? My experience is that this requires a lot of work on yourself to find emotional balance and peace of mind that they cannot reach, whilst you respond to their behaviour gently but firmly. I was with my ex for 23 yrs I tried and tried to support him so we could have an honest and mutually giving relationship I thought I was good at seeing when he was lying but in fact- it was all lies everything the whole relationship. Told me after he left that he wasnt giving up his friends, any of them. I do break down and I pull myself back together. Click here for instructions on how to enable JavaScript in your browser. I either need to do what I think is correct or if its something we need to speak about I will wait until things have calmed down. And it went too far once, already, he has had an affair. Within Canon Law, if these essential qualities are lacking, the marriage can be looked on as invalid from the start, i.e. And michelle I know just where you are coming from as well. Be bold be smart be loving be caring be humble and then if he fails to respond positively Id say there is a problem, he may be preoccupied with something he cant talk to you about could be some issue at work or family, he could be bullied at work but doesnt see it as bullying. Apologies, crying baby, spelling mistakes and unfinished sentences above. My husband and I have been married for quite some time now. 11) Since my son was going to eventually get my old car and your car was part of the bankruptcy and they were going to take it, I suggested that I buy a new car 10 month earlier than I needed too. Guess that is what still hurts him most. She told me when I was in high school that she picked me to take care of all the family members. I did this wrong more than once before, I wanted to leave him four times already out of anger, out of fear and just in the heat of the moment, when we were arguing. Narcissists are afraid of being rejected or abandoned. She did not present any evidence but seems to have scared the wits out of my male bosses as she implied shed make a sexual harassment claim against them if they did nt follow suit. By taking control over your own life back, you are able to create fear and doubt in a Narcissist. Forget needing him to be sorry that is a losers game and only got things to where they are now. Literally, I thought it was me and I was being unreasonable. I did not understand how I was allowing others to have such unhealthy control over me. This was NOT my desired outcome but a result of our unique situation and personalities, and was not the fault of any of the materials or tips Id used during the time I tried to rescue myself and the marriage. It will serve as a reminder that you too are in control of things. How depressing that they are so selfish they will not be responsible. I have a husband with Borderline Personailty Disorder & he is very narcissist. As you have seen it turns into a trial and everyone gets their defences up. Thanks Kim I understand you dont have alot of info to work with. For partners of the Narcissist, it is important to improve setting boundaries and holding the Narcissist accountable for their behaviour. They may act and feel grandiose and. The man could argue a ridiculous point. Of course that is not going to work and is not really a boundary at all. I was shocked. I have a severe physical disability and cannot take on parenting an adult it is too draining, Tanya we could be talking about the same man here, amazing. He confuses the hell out of me! Hi Shannon and welcome here and in my short ebooks I hope you find the help you need (-: Please, What does your comment is awaiting moderation mean? At this point, I think it may be best (for me, likely him too) to stay away and do nothing or resolve the legal aspect. As you can imagine finances have been a total mess and Im trying to save bits at a time for your book. That kind of thinking can unfortunately get people, and especially children hurt. Hi DA, Sorry this post has been so popular I havent had time to respond to everyone. Because he was ashamed of his failure it was easy for him to be quiet because really he didnt know what to say anyway. I mean for me to feel the kind of trust for him and love from him that a woman ought for someone she is having sex with wow, that would be gigantic. Through this Blog it has become to Clear. And SO much pain from people who have walked more than a mile in my shoes. My sister is a NPD. He couldnt see any connection to his actions and thought that I was arbitrary and unfair. Pain can result in a person becoming angry or irrational and acting out. Rather than playing teacher, judge and jury or mother superior instead try some grit with a dash of humility while setting boundaries . I also wonder why you have chosen to avoid his affection in the past? Thank you Kim. I have survived and will be fine, regardless if he gets better or not! If money is borrowed I have to ask him to please find a way to make his own money through employment. Otherwise, you will be spending your life trying to make someone else happy, and unfortunately those days are limited. But that is just fantasy. nothing worked. That might not sound like much to some people for us we were lucky to go 5 days without something happening. Take good care. In. Only within the last couple of years did I start studying manipulation techniques for something unrelated. More importantly, they have no affective empathythe ability to feel what another person is feelingmuch less have compassion for others. Why do we struggle with the concept of inalienable rights? For a woman in relationship with a narcissistic man, does it make any sense to use sex to hold him accountable? Thank you so much for all your hard work in getting the word out about NPD/co-dependency and a way to work through a marriage and not just run away from it. Thank you Kim. Before he comes begging her back! I feel I did a very good job of using the above techniques the second I realized I had a narcissist on my hands. It is always me. Good luck everyone. I am far from having a healthy relation with my husband. Personally, I think that by not holding these people accountable, it just happens to create more narcissists. Personally I think that boundaries are better if they are set to protect yourself and your own life and interests rather than to teach someone a lesson. You dont deserve this either for the rest of your life. The 2nd counselor I went to by myself(after the couples attempt, where he wanted to be friends) told me he was likely a narcissist. If not, Id highly recommend getting Kim & Steves ebook 10 Steps To Overcome Co-dependence. When he was alcholic and drunk he would do the stupid lying stuff, but when sober and caught he could at least give bits of the truthwho knows. Fortunately, my 13 year old can see most of his BS, but the 10 and 9 year old boys can not. In my heart I know its not over, but things are far from good! Absolutely! Ive walked on eggshells for years and hes totally screwed my head ! Well I wanted to update. Then on the first you told me you didnt have the money because it was Christmas and you needed money. He is no longer abusive towards me and he is learning to control his emotions. !He shows no remorse,money is his God'(he grew up very poor)I undestand that and that it wasnt his fault.He is very verbally and emotionally abusive,to the point that I cant describe the hurt and humiliation.What u r saying Kim abt bringing a third party in wld make him laugh.He has called the police on me and turned the whole issue around so I got no help there.Ive been to counselling,healing all on my own cos he refuses to go cos theres nothing wrong with him.He is very,very crude and says as a married man he has his rights and if a wife dsnt have sex(never make love)with her husband he has to go looking elsewhere for it.He cuts me to the quick with his slander,always belittling me and constantly puts me down.He referss to me in company as the thing or the wife.I know pple think and look at me like Im crazy and its becoming embarrasing to tell them cos its like going around in circles.Also,he is such a nice guy,pple think he is wonderful and I am looked at as the miserable bitch(excuse the language)that he puts up with.Sadly he has been my one and only love.PPle say leave him and move onbut,move on to whatat my age and stage in life it isnt easy.And yes I love him and do know there is so much good in him. She tells me the affair is over (actually, she insists it never happened most of the time; though I have evidence to the contrary) and she is still working for the guy she had the affair with. Clever eh. Perspective is all important and since a couple usually ends up living in the way the dominant partner prefers the other person can seem passive/ aggressive simply if they dont throw themselves into that lifestyle with the degree of enthusiasm the dominant person would like to see. I am only responsible for my self. He isolates me from his friends because he knows that I see his other self emerge in front of them, and he does not want me to call him out on it (I have done so before, with terrible consequences). I was confused and insecure. I told him if he didnt want to make a decision then I would have to make one on my own and told him that I felt it is best to seperate our finances completely and that in order to do so he would have to get his own place to live once he comes back home. Its going to cost him a whole lot more when he moves out and has to pay someone to live somewhere else. . The consequences of his actions in this situation are hard to tell. She is also a functioning alcoholic and has had an affair. 17 up above, Deborah said she likes to think of the narcissists brain as a mass of short circuited wires that just dont connect. I read that narcissists may have faulty brain circuitry left brain/right brain functions dont work properly, making it difficult for them to process information much like people with dyslexia see the alphabet backwards or skewed somehow. The only way to make them accountable is by learning manipulative tricks like asking them for their ideas: "I don't know how we can manage our finances better. Then I will return to my friend and find a little bit more have changed since the last time and I pray alot too. Could I have returned to Germany? In some places in the world this is not possible however and the victim becomes further victimized by the system. Hang in their people get yourself educated about their illness and know this is a mental condition. Thankfully I know that he didnt reject me because of who I am but discarded me because of who he is! Its all straight from the heart and tells it like it really is. Sometimes I wish Id die and just get it over with. Hi John I really feel for what you are going through. But i didnt immediately saw that it were fantasy. I was taught at a young age to be a caretaker my grandmother choose me since I had patience. Im burned out on his verbal abuse and lack of accountability, blaming me for his frustrations with how I want things at my house..which it IS, and hes lazy too. 1. He never did anything for me nothing. It is really unbelievable what they put you through. Say nothing let him think he right since he is gonna thinks he is right anyway. I would not stay next time he is cheating. Is it a good idea to just go and do my own stuff then in a non-confrontational manner? Kim & Steve, thank you for sharing your wisdom. The truth is, narcissists lack accountability because they get away with it. His emotional and verbal abuse has only gotten worse since I was originally diagnosed. I would encourage you to read all you can get your hands on from Kim and Steve. so weve come to a better situation, but there is still alot to do. During our twenty-eight years of marriage, my husbands manipulation has been very successful in keeping me from many relationships including family, both mine and his. I give them the fuel, to take to others, to set me on fire. His escaping from commitment, especially that we r far now made me obsessive and jealous. Finally understanding that my relationship with my mother was actually a relationship with a narcissist was the key to the rest of my life. so doing, we are able to sustain the necessary leverage for healing, for enduring change. Hey Welcome Cheryl and good job surviving the hell you were raised in, it is tough when we end up having to parent ourselves. Is there anything more I can do bridge the gap? Is the rapist a relative or stranger? Keeping rapport at the same time as setting boundaries is tough but a balancing act that helps a person become a better leader for sure! I know that I need to be patient and quiet.. You asked me to lend you the money to pay it off knowing that I made some money on the sale of my house, granted I did not have a new job yet after leaving my old one to move and am a single mom of two. Dealing with the trauma resulting from a abusive relationship is really hard to do. I have a beautiful six month old son to a man I love and care for who suffers from NPD. Here's why a narcissist may cry when someone dies: Attention - to shift the spotlight of the whole event onto them and claim as much of the focus as possible. In this situation the priority is on setting boundaries. Loss of supply - crying for themselves because they've lost a valuable source of supply. He never took me for treatments, he acted as if this was not his worry or fight. Others think he is wonderful. I assume there are different degrees of narcissismand though my wife doesnt do some of the more egregious behaviors many of you are dealing with, she is a text-book narcissist in her inability to accept accountability or in any way see the world through eyes or perspectives other than her own.